The Bunny Hop Suspension


Yaminator

New member
Just to let you guys know... With the standard suspension i can bunny hop my bike by 4 inches.... i ride and bounce up & down on the pegs and by this i achieve my bunny hop as witnessed by a friend

My conclusion is that the suspension is really really bad........

But its ok for me as a london rider because there is so many speed humps its quite beneficial..

But please if anyone can argue with there suspension upgrades i will gladly listen to any advice and recommendations. Thanks in advance.
 
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Deleted member 20

Guest
My conclusion is that the suspension is really really bad...
When you did measure your front and rear sag with 1) bike w/o rider and 2) bike with rider on, what readings in mm did you get?
What is your weight with gear, in kg? Do you also carry passanger and/or luggage?
To which road/surface condition do intend to optimize your suspension?
What tyre pressure do you use?
How do best describe the ride, front and rear -- harsh, plush, sticky, bouncy, soft, hard, other?
Describe how your bike behaves under braking, corner entry, mid corner and drive out of corner exit?
 

Yaminator

New member
Hi There, and30ers,
I have not checked the sag at all yet,
The bike does give a comfortable ride & my tyres are at the pressures of what it says in the owners manual the total weight is of me is about 95-105 kilo's, no passengers or luggage. i would like to optimise my suspension for country lanes..

ps my rear tyre is due for changing in the spring so its a bit squared at the moment & also i do feel the rear bouce when riding hard with corners..
I hope this helps.??
 
D

Deleted member 20

Guest
Starting at the rear. Stock shock isn’t very adjustable, spring pre-load only, and it’s damping performance is very basic. About the only way to alter or improve the rear suspension is to replace the shock and it’s well spent money. Any aftermarket shock will do the job; Ohlins, Wilbers, Nitron etc. Prices from €400 to €1100. The more fancy ones will have external gas reservoir and added adjustability features. Most important to get the spring rate right for your weight and riding style, you MUST measure your current sag to get an idea of where you are today. Stock spring has a spring rate of 109 N/mm, I guess a spring with 110 or 120 N/mm will work well for you. Don’t go too hard on the spring, soft is good! Saving some money by choosing a mid-price shock will leave you with money to spend on the front as well.

Front. Soooo many options, from a few € up to about 850 €.
Stock springs are linear with 8.50 N/mm spring rate. Stock oil is 10W. Stock damping is simply the size of drilled holes in damping rod where oil is passing through. No adjusters to be found.

Budget tweak: Replacing 10W oil with heavier oil will firm up your damping but not make it better. Adding any type of washers/spacers under the fork top caps will function as pre-load adjusters.

Spring replacement: You can go harder linear or get a spring with progressive spring rate. Personally, I am not a big fan of progressive springs for this type of application (light weight road bike with 130 mm travel). Cost about €100-150. Can be combined with budget tweek above.

Pre-load adjustable top caps: I wouldn’t bother, it’s cheaper and easier to just throw in spacers under the stock top caps.

Gold Valve Emulators: Drastically improves compression damping performance and adjustability but you need to open up your forks every time you want to adjust/tweak your suspension. Cost about €120. You still need to get your fork springs and spring preload sorted for your weight and riding style.

Complete fork cartridge kit: This is da shit if you want excellent performance and complete adjustability via the fork top caps. Andreani at €500 or Ohlins NIX 22 at €820. Kits come with new fork springs, get the right spring rate for your weight.
 

Yaminator

New member
i was thinking of these guys as they are local to me
https://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/catalog/partdetail.aspx?partno=M62092


https://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/catalog/partdetail.aspx?partno=400-486-00K


Starting at the rear. Stock shock isn’t very adjustable, spring pre-load only, and it’s damping performance is very basic. About the only way to alter or improve the rear suspension is to replace the shock and it’s well spent money. Any aftermarket shock will do the job; Ohlins, Wilbers, Nitron etc. Prices from €400 to €1100. The more fancy ones will have external gas reservoir and added adjustability features. Most important to get the spring rate right for your weight and riding style, you MUST measure your current sag to get an idea of where you are today. Stock spring has a spring rate of 109 N/mm, I guess a spring with 110 or 120 N/mm will work well for you. Don’t go too hard on the spring, soft is good! Saving some money by choosing a mid-price shock will leave you with money to spend on the front as well.

Front. Soooo many options, from a few € up to about 850 €.
Stock springs are linear with 8.50 N/mm spring rate. Stock oil is 10W. Stock damping is simply the size of drilled holes in damping rod where oil is passing through. No adjusters to be found.

Budget tweak: Replacing 10W oil with heavier oil will firm up your damping but not make it better. Adding any type of washers/spacers under the fork top caps will function as pre-load adjusters.

Spring replacement: You can go harder linear or get a spring with progressive spring rate. Personally, I am not a big fan of progressive springs for this type of application (light weight road bike with 130 mm travel). Cost about €100-150. Can be combined with budget tweek above.

Pre-load adjustable top caps: I wouldn’t bother, it’s cheaper and easier to just throw in spacers under the stock top caps.

Gold Valve Emulators: Drastically improves compression damping performance and adjustability but you need to open up your forks every time you want to adjust/tweak your suspension. Cost about €120. You still need to get your fork springs and spring preload sorted for your weight and riding style.

Complete fork cartridge kit: This is da shit if you want excellent performance and complete adjustability via the fork top caps. Andreani at €500 or Ohlins NIX 22 at €820. Kits come with new fork springs, get the right spring rate for your weight.
 
D

Deleted member 20

Guest
i was thinking of these guys...
Personally...

I guess Hagon shocks are cheap for a reason, I doubt it will be much of an upgrade from stock shock. Consider a Ø38 mm piston, Ø18 mm rod, no external reservoir and you get a tiny volume for oil and gas inside the shock for improved DAMPING performance. Compare Nitron, Wilbers and Ohlins dimensions. I would at least go for a Nitron NTR1 or even better a Wilbers 640 or Ohlins STX46, all 3 of these are good and priced pretty much the same. Add external reservoir and separate compression and rebound DAMPING adjustment and the price of the units doubles.




Hagon progressive front springs? What problem are you trying to solve? A progressive spring will dive more under braking and make the front feel even softer on small hits and low speed compression and even harder on bigger hits and high speed pot-hole compression. This will only exaggerate the poor properties (mushy low speed compression damping and harsh high speed compression damping) of the stock damping rod technology forks. Why would anyone want that?

The stock front spring is fine, maybe a tad soft, the real problem with the front is lack of proper DAMPING. With improved damping it’s easy to live with a softer spring.

Swapping springs are easy but will little real effect. Improving DAMPING is more fiddly but will improve ride quality and road handling. Go for cartridge emulators if you’re on a budget or a real cartridge kit if you can. And get a professional to install it for you if feel unsure about your workshop skills.
 
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Deleted member 20

Guest
Someone on here (above) has fitted a 170 tyre instead of the 180. He reported improvements.
I will fit a 170/60 rear on the MT07 next time. I recently fitted 170/60 rear (Metzeler Roadtec 01) on my TDM900A instead of the stock 160/60 dimension. Works great!
The 160/60 is 96 mm high, 170/60 is 102 mm high, 185/55 is 99 mm high, 190/50 is 95 mm high.
More hight is good for comfort and grip, 170 mm width is good for anything up to 125 hp.
I would never fit a 190/50 on any bike, rather 180/55 or 190/55. For the most potent >200 hp racer I would fit 200/55.
There is a reason Yamaha R6 use 180/55, R1 190/55 and R1M 200/55.
The 190/50 dimension is reserved for clueless posers -- loads of them around.
 
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Yaminator

New member
Personally...

I guess Hagon shocks are cheap for a reason, I doubt it will be much of an upgrade from stock shock. Consider a Ø38 mm piston, Ø18 mm rod, no external reservoir and you get a tiny volume for oil and gas inside the shock for improved DAMPING performance. Compare Nitron, Wilbers and Ohlins dimensions. I would at least go for a Nitron NTR1 or even better a Wilbers 640 or Ohlins STX46, all 3 of these are good and priced pretty much the same. Add external reservoir and separate compression and rebound DAMPING adjustment and the price of the units doubles.




Hagon progressive front springs? What problem are you trying to solve? A progressive spring will dive more under braking and make the front feel even softer on small hits and low speed compression and even harder on bigger hits and high speed pot-hole compression. This will only exaggerate the poor properties (mushy low speed compression damping and harsh high speed compression damping) of the stock damping rod technology forks. Why would anyone want that?

The stock front spring is fine, maybe a tad soft, the real problem with the front is lack of proper DAMPING. With improved damping it’s easy to live with a softer spring.

Swapping springs are easy but will little real effect. Improving DAMPING is more fiddly but will improve ride quality and road handling. Go for cartridge emulators if you’re on a budget or a real cartridge kit if you can. And get a professional to install it for you if feel unsure about your workshop skills.
Hey Thanks for your efforts that's a great help there..
 

Bill

New member
Greats information on suspension and30ers. In the Andreani page, is the riders weight with or without riding gear?
Thanks.
 
D

Deleted member 20

Guest
I don’t know if the weight is with or w/o gear but I would specify naked weight and I strongly suggest you to specify exactly what spring rate you want. My experience is that Ohlins for example are shipping springs that are on the hard side if you tell them your weight, good for smooth track work but not so good for comfort on our pot-holed roads. You have to decide what comfort level you want, I prefer a softer spring and then adding some pre-load and more damping if riding aggressive on smooth surface.

Front:
Stock Yamaha springs are 8.5 N/mm.
Ohlins 8.5 N/mm springs are recommended for 50-69 kg riders.
Ohlins 9.0 N/mm springs are recommended for 70-89 kg riders.
Ohlins 9.5 N/mm springs are recommended for 90-110 kg riders.
(I would say <80 kg use 8.5, between 80-100 kg use 9.0 and >100 kg use 9.5)

Rear:
Stock Yamaha spring is 107.8 N/mm.
Ohlins have two shocks for MT07:
- The basic S46DR1 (also called STX46) with part no YA-419.
- The full feature S46HR1C1 with part no YA-070-PFP (only found in France from ohlins.fr).
Both Shocks use a 170 mm long spring called # 1092-xx where xx is the code for spring rate as per below:
Ohlins spring 1092-34 with 100 N/mm (I would say for rider 60-70 kg naked).
Ohlins spring 1092-36 with 105 N/mm (I would say for rider 67-77 kg naked).
Ohlins spring 1092-39 with 110 N/mm (I would say for rider 75-85 kg naked).
Ohlins spring 1092-41 with 115 N/mm (I would say for rider 82-92 kg naked).
Ohlins spring 1092-44 with 120 N/mm (I would say for rider 90-100 kg naked).
Ohlins spring 1092-49 with 130 N/mm (I would say for rider 105-115 kg naked).

Not all springs / spring rates might be available on all markets.

All MT07 springs from Yamaha and Ohlins, front and rear, are linear (not progressive).
 
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Deleted member 20

Guest
What do you reckon..?
What exactly is it from Hyperpro that you’re actually getting and at what price?

I wouldn’t buy the Hyperpro basic emulsion shock.

The Hyperpro high-end shock with remote reservoir looks ok and is price ok, somewhere between Ohlins S46DR1 and S46HR1C1. What spring rate in the shock?

I wouldn’t buy Hyperpro (or other) replacement front spring kits. As mentioned before in great detail. Get a cartridge (Ohlins or Andreani) or cartridge emulators (Race Tech Gold Valves).

Note: I’m not saying I’m right, I’m just saying what I think. Others might think differently.
 


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